In this episode of the International Web Effectiveness Podcast, Bill Scully and Bill Hunt break down the importance of involving digital teams to improve overall marketing campaign results. They share practical ways to integrate search into offline (and online) marketing campaigns, focusing on research support, analytics, and tracking success. The conversation also touches on applying lessons from past campaigns to future strategies, highlighting the value of collaboration in digital marketing.
Key Takeaways
- Marketing is a team sport and thrives on collaboration.
- Engaging digital teams plays a major role in marketing campaign success.
- Having the call to action is fundamental to campaign effectiveness.
- Analytics can uncover important insights for campaign strategies and results.
- Digital strategies should be woven into all marketing efforts.
- Planning for digital assets makes digital’s job easier.
Catch the Full Episode
YouTube: https://youtu.be/9o5iRtw6caM?si=WGDz7dcxcLEKkbQI
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7E0Mx858GYx9kDYedWfxaG?si=EBoqu69ZQomcPkInZsZmcA
Transcript
Bill Scully (00:04)
Welcome to Episode 28 of the International Web Effectiveness Podcast, where Bill Hunt and I, Bill Scully, focus on strategies and techniques to improve web presence and manage global websites.
In Episode 27, we discussed how SEO is a team sport, why more people need to be integrated into the larger digital team, and how to encourage greater participation. In this episode, we’re expanding on that idea—exploring how engaging digital teams is essential for overall marketing campaign effectiveness.
When I was with Siemens as a digital marketing manager, I was fortunate to have coworkers who met almost bi-weekly. That regular interaction meant I was always informed about what was happening in the organization. More importantly, I was able to influence others to incorporate digital strategies into their marketing campaigns.
As a result, we extended the reach and awareness of campaigns, enhanced engagement, and, most importantly, tracked and measured their impact—not just in terms of webpage visits but also brand lift and other key metrics. I thought this would be a great topic to discuss, especially in the context of web effectiveness—how digital can be embedded into every aspect of a company’s marketing strategy.
Hey, Bill, how’s it going?
Bill Hunt (01:58)
I’m good, good. I think this is going to be a fascinating topic because now, more than ever, collaboration is crucial. We need to maximize our marketing dollars. It’s 2025—everything should be wired up to extract as much value as possible.
Bill Scully (02:20)
Yeah, and one of the things I always emphasize is thinking beyond awareness. What’s the call to action? What’s the conversion goal? When launching a product, it’s not just about making people aware of the name—it’s about driving action.
There are countless ways to create synergy between online and offline events to enhance conversions and follow-ups. This is a fascinating discussion, especially because you recently experienced a situation similar to one I’ve had, though likely on a much larger scale. Want to set the scene for us?
Bill Hunt (03:11)
Yeah. At the time, I was handling the search for a project that involved multiple teams, including my parent company, Ogilvy, and a major computing hardware company. They were launching a new version of WebMeetings.
We had meeting after meeting leading up to this because it was a massive announcement—one that marked a shift in how the company wanted to be perceived. And, as you often advocate, we used search data, social media insights, and other research to understand how people were looking for this type of solution.
But then we hit a roadblock. Despite all our findings, we were told that none of the insights could be used because this product was so new—so cutting-edge—that it was essentially Star Trek-level web conferencing. At that point, we knew this was going to be interesting.
To make things even more challenging, there was an embargo—no one could mention the product name or talk about it before the official launch. The plan was to keep everything under wraps until the big reveal.
Then, at a major event—I believe it was Davos—the CEO went on stage and casually mentioned it. He made an offhand remark along the lines of, “Events like this may not be needed in the future because we have a new program called Telepresence that will make it feel like you’re in the room.”
That one sentence set off a chain reaction. The global press immediately latched onto it. Suddenly, everyone wanted to know: What is Telepresence?
Panic set in within the PR and marketing teams—the secret was out.
We immediately started monitoring search activity. This was before Search Console, so we had to track queries manually. Sure enough, we saw press and bloggers beginning to ask about it on social media. Every day, we compiled a report detailing the growing interest.
And then came the realization: there was nowhere for people to go to get information. Because no content had been prepared in advance, we were already behind. So, with about two weeks until the official launch, we rushed to get a page up—something to explain the concept and capture emails from interested users.
Bill Scully (06:19)
Okay.
Bill Hunt (06:23)
If you want more information, or if you’d like to attend our announcement event coming up in two weeks, I think this is exactly what you’re talking about. Despite wanting to be part of it, we weren’t able to because of the traditional way they were handling things.
Interestingly enough, part of their launch involved spending millions to be featured in the TV show 24. They had branded phones, and in multiple episodes, characters would say, “Let’s have a secure meeting in the telepresence room,” showcasing the technology.
However, on social media, people assumed it was just a prop. They didn’t make the connection because, when the announcement was made, it was within a technology-focused space. It wasn’t quite in a vacuum, but it was targeted at CEOs and tech professionals. So, mainstream audiences didn’t realize it was a real product.
Bill Scully (07:12)
Thank—
Bill Hunt (07:40)
This is where digital integration could have made a difference. Imagine leveraging social media to highlight the secure meeting feature from 24, pulling clips from the episodes, and carrying that momentum online.
That approach would have amplified the impact of their traditional TV commercials and other media like print.
Bill Scully (08:16)
Yeah. It’s unfortunate. But even when people are involved, things can slip through the cracks.
A good example: A third-party agency built a landing page for a campaign, but they just stuck an iframe on a random site. Nobody even knew it existed. A month later, we saw huge keyword impressions—massive numbers. But because we weren’t optimized for those terms and didn’t even realize people were searching for them, we missed out.
Now, imagine people asking questions, misunderstanding the campaign, or assuming the wrong things. I can’t reveal the exact keywords, but there were at least four times more relevant search terms than anyone had considered.
Here’s what I would do: If you could grab coffee with the decision-makers—the ones funding these campaigns—you’d gain insights into what they’re planning. Instead of saying, “I need to be involved,” you’d ask, “How can I help?”
At the very least, you could use analytics to support their efforts—something they might not even realize is possible.
Bill Hunt (09:52)
Exactly.
Bill Scully (10:14)
You’ve got site analytics, keyword research, and impression data. Depending on the campaign, you can track traffic to the landing page, support them with QR codes, and much more.
But to be truly integrated, you need collaboration—email teams, analytics, paid ads, PR, and social media all working together. That’s how you maximize the impact of a campaign.
If it’s a big campaign, you could include behind-the-scenes photo shoots, blog content, and PR outreach. Too often, PR isn’t even involved in these efforts. You need links pointing to the landing page—not just the homepage—and to other campaign assets.
Bill Hunt (11:24)
Right.
Bill Scully (11:43)
With video content, you could repurpose it—slice it into smaller clips, take screenshots, or even tease the campaign without revealing the full name. There are so many ways to stretch your marketing budget when digital is integrated.
Bill Hunt (12:05)
That’s the key. Like you said, it’s about getting the most out of everything.
What do I call this? It’s like my biggest epiphany—funny how things just slip my mind sometimes… Oh, force multipliers!
We need to use every tool available, especially for campaigns, to connect everything and encourage outside-the-box thinking.
Take behind-the-scenes content, for example. We worked with a shapewear company struggling with awareness. By analyzing social media and search trends, we discovered interesting insights.
One of the top questions people asked was: “Does it roll up or move when I bend or stretch?” That’s crucial information for marketing! Another discovery—while we weren’t allowed to use the word “girdle,” 92% of users searching for the product were using that exact term.
Bill Scully (13:36)
Yeah, yeah. If someone sees a picture of it, they’re thinking, “That’s a girdle.”
Bill Hunt (13:41)
Right, but the word was banned. So one of the things we suggested was, on your next photo shoot for the campaign, website, and catalog, why not have someone film it? Imagine—you’ve got these models contorting in different ways, wearing the product, moving from one position to another. What better way to answer customer questions than by showing it in action?
You could create 30-second clips that immediately demonstrate the product. But of course, the marketing team pushed back, saying it would be too hard to control. They were concerned that something might not appear perfectly, or that an unintended detail might be captured. But I pointed out—it’s not a live stream. You can edit the footage and have multiple takes.
Now, many brands use behind-the-scenes content, especially for major campaigns like Super Bowl commercials. They even film behind-the-scenes footage of on-screen talent getting into makeup because audiences love that kind of content.
Bill Scully (14:37)
Yeah, right. I mean, don’t use that image.
Bill Hunt (15:05)
Exactly. The question is, how can we leverage what we’re already doing? Just hand someone a smartphone—it doesn’t have to be a high-production setup. Show the process, share a blooper, just don’t overthink it.
The same applies to how we use words. One interesting case was when data showed a common customer question: Can I use these leggings for yoga? The obvious answer was yes—they’re leggings. But the brand and product managers insisted, “We don’t have yoga leggings.”
Bill Scully (16:01)
You—
Bill Hunt (16:02)
Exactly. But according to one of their influencers, who teaches yoga while wearing their leggings, they do have yoga leggings. She even recommended them as the most comfortable leggings for her classes. Sometimes, brands fail to connect the dots.
In the end, we compiled all these common questions and created a landing page that showcased shapewear options based on body type. It featured upper body, lower body, midsection, and leg shapewear in various formats, including shaping t-shirts and tank tops. This page was used for paid social and search campaigns.
It was a smart approach because, in a subtle way, it preemptively answered customers’ questions—demonstrating that they had shapewear for all the needs people were searching for.
From a marketing standpoint, it’s about identifying these force multipliers. Email marketing, for example—introducing a topic in an email can lead people to search for more information or follow the brand. We can say, Follow us on social media and get a discount code.
We talked about this before—how coupon codes and discount offers can be integrated into ads. One of the most effective word-monitoring strategies I’ve seen was when we worked with Toyota on the Prius launch.
When they introduced the fifth-generation Prius, we noticed that people were searching for and discussing the “fifth-generation Prius” on social media. This gave Toyota a way to separate out the key features and functions for that specific model. Customers were posting things like, The fifth-generation Prius has this feature, this function, and this upgrade. It became a great feedback loop—introduce something in a TV commercial or print ad, then track how people respond.
Bill Scully (18:59)
That’s pretty smart—especially when you’re not really changing the brand name.
Bill Hunt (19:05)
Right, you’re just introducing the model.
Bill Scully (19:07)
Yeah, and it’ll be the same for the next three years. So there’s no need to brand it for just one year and then have to update it annually.
Bill Hunt (19:12)
Right. Exactly.
I mean, that’s another challenge. I’ve worked on dozens of projects with car companies, and it’s always an interesting scenario with the web. In the U.S., we often have multiple model years available at the same time. A new model launches, but the previous year’s models are still on dealer lots. Right now, we’re preparing to launch the 2026 models, but it’s still 2025, and some dealers even have 2024 models available.
Local dealers need to attract buyers for all three versions, which creates a challenge for managing this online. If someone searches for a Toyota Tundra or a Mini Cooper, there are three iterations in the marketplace. How do we handle that on the web? How do we structure our website to guide users to the right model? How do we connect these efforts with social media?
The TV commercials focus on the latest features, but are they addressing the questions customers are actually asking? That ties into what we’ll cover in the next episode—how to capture customer data, analyze what people are asking customer service, and feed that insight back into our campaigns. If we produce a second or third commercial, why not introduce functionality people are specifically inquiring about?
Looking at this holistically is essential. Which commercials drove engagement? Did they spark interest in TV viewers? Did that interest translate into email sign-ups, social engagement, or search behavior? Are we integrating all these elements effectively?
One recurring issue that ties into web effectiveness is digital asset management. When companies create these ads, I often advise them:
- Save the commercial in multiple formats.
- Capture images in resolutions suited for web and social media.
- Optimize for different aspect ratios—horizontal, square, vertical.
For example, if you’re a beverage company shooting a commercial, think about the setting. Whether it’s at a bar or a home, capture high-quality images at that moment. If you handle this in post-production, it saves countless hours of editing later.
Too often, companies don’t plan for this. I’ve worked with brands where they take a massive image and then resize it 40 different ways, resulting in degraded visuals online. Instead, they should store optimized versions in an asset management system, ensuring the right file is always accessible.
We need to think strategically. Not to overcomplicate it, but we should establish a process—almost like a chain of custody—so that every step of content creation supports the next stage downstream.
Bill Scully (23:20)
Like a checklist. That’s a great point.
We used to have a system where we outlined who was responsible for what and what assets were needed. One of our key challenges was image management. We had separate image sizes for email and web, but we didn’t always do a great job with PR. I always pushed for having an iconic image of the campaign that PR teams could easily use in magazines or media coverage.
Thinking ahead is crucial. Even before the campaign is finalized or the product name is chosen, we should be leveraging search data to make smarter decisions. How are people thinking about this category? What are they searching for if they don’t know the exact product name? We need to incorporate those insights into our materials to introduce people to the category effectively.
I’ve seen commercials where, after watching them, I still have no idea what the product is or what I’m supposed to do next.
Bill Hunt (24:51)
Exactly. What was that even about?
Where’s the call to action?
It’s interesting how many ads I’ve seen recently that don’t even include a website. Some industries, like pharmaceuticals, focus entirely on brand awareness. Speaking of pharma ads, here’s something I’ve noticed: pay attention to the color integration in the next one you see.
Bill Scully (25:03)
Yeah.
Bill Hunt (25:21)
The actors will often wear clothing that matches the brand’s logo. The level of detail in subliminally embedding brand colors is impressive.
Or think about the earworm effect—those catchy jingles that stick in your head. The trend of commercials with synchronized dancing is another example.
Bill Scully (25:25)
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
Bill Hunt (25:48)
But at the end of the day, the question remains: what was the commercial even about?
One challenge my daughter has encountered—she works in pharma marketing—is helping consumers understand how to pronounce drug names. They received social media feedback that people were struggling with pronunciation. Some brands now include phonetic guides in their commercials or directly instruct viewers on how to say the name.
Bill Scully (26:01)
Yeah.
Bill Hunt (26:17)
They need to know how to pronounce it because they have to come up with unique names that are trademarkable. It’s all part of the process. When people see it, they might think, “Okay, what was that?”
We’ve talked about this in previous episodes—if someone saw it but didn’t remember the brand or product name, how might they search for it? Ensuring those keywords are integrated into the website is crucial.
For example, if someone is thinking, “What was that one weight-loss drug with the singing and dancing?” then, boom—your brand should come up. That’s how people remember things. During focus groups, when testing commercials, brands should ask: “What’s your takeaway? What did you remember?” That feedback should be incorporated into the website.
Even if the URL isn’t included, many brands—especially in industries like pharma—choose unique names that allow them to secure the domain and trademark it for protection. This way, people can search for it easily. But of course, there are always copycats hijacking domain variations, creating a whole different set of challenges.
These are the things brands need to consider—how to capture people’s interest and direct them to the right place. I’ve worked on about 80% of the major campaigns where there was always a glitch with the website.
I remember one case with a major insurance company.
Bill Hunt (28:50)
This was around the early 2020s when everyone was chasing adjacent connections. At the time, almost every insurance company was trying to launch a portal for small business information. This particular company spent a fortune—somewhere between $50 to $80 million—on TV, print, and building a website.
The launch was scheduled for a specific day. As the search team, we were responsible for making it rank, but we couldn’t do anything until the site was live. We had paid search campaigns ready, and everything was set to drop on launch day.
But as the day approached, the website kept getting delayed—backlog after backlog. The night before launch, they finally admitted, “The website won’t be ready.”
The problem? Every ad directed people to the website.
Since we had backend access for SEO, we decided to take a risk. Instead of leaving a dead link, we pushed a temporary page live. It simply said, “Coming Soon. Want more information? Enter your email.”
Bill Scully (30:03)
Wow.
Bill Hunt (30:16)
The agency wasn’t happy. They insisted, “We can’t launch this site.” But no one had a backup plan. So, we took the initiative and framed it as a mystery—just enough to keep people engaged.
By the time they realized what had happened, we had already collected 10,000 email signups.
Bill Scully (30:34)
Man.
Bill Hunt (30:36)
By the end of the first day, as media coverage rolled out, we had 50,000 signups.
Bill Scully (30:59)
Holy shit.
Bill Hunt (31:01)
Right? And then, of course, everyone started taking credit for it.
Bill Scully (31:04)
Yeah, right.
Bill Hunt (31:06)
At first, they wanted to take the page down and were questioning whether I’d even keep my job. But once they saw the numbers, suddenly, everyone was on board.
Paid search drove even more traffic because now people were curious. By the end, other teams took credit for over 200,000 signups because faith-based media and other channels amplified the message.
The key takeaway? The website wasn’t ready. If we hadn’t set up that landing page to capture emails, we would have lost everything. We saw the traffic data—yes, their media campaign was effective, but it could have been exponentially more successful if the website had been properly built.
I’ve seen this happen in other projects, too. I recently wrote about one where a company was launching an education website. At the time, online courses weren’t common, and this was one of the first platforms of its kind.
Bill Hunt (32:33)
So, the number one revenue stream was ads. The second was signing up—clicking in to get books and other materials, essentially lead generation or direct book sales. The third was signing up for other courses, like live courses offered by universities. I mean, we were talking about Columbia, Harvard—basically an Ivy League-type setup.
Bill Scully (32:48)
Evil.
Bill Hunt (33:02)
At the time, they only had a few courses online—not even live yet—but they were planning to launch them soon. The fourth revenue stream was these paid online courses.
Now, the first version of the website—we were in a meeting reviewing it. The agents and everyone in the room were saying, “My God, this is beautiful. It’s going to win all kinds of awards.” It was visually stunning. But I’m sitting there—the so-called “lowly search guy”—just looking at it, thinking, something’s off here.
Michael Bonfield once called my expression resting WTF face at a conference, and I guess I had that look again. The CMO noticed and asked, “Bill, what do you see that I’m not seeing? You seem displeased.”
I asked, “What’s the number one way we’re going to generate revenue?”
She answered, “Ads.” And as she said it, she suddenly realized—the agency didn’t include the ad block.
Why? Well, first, they thought it looked bad. Second, they said they didn’t have the real estate for it because they needed more white space to make the site look pretty. So, the primary revenue driver at launch—the key source of income—was removed simply because it wasn’t aesthetically pleasing.
Bill Scully (34:26)
Yeah.
Bill Hunt (34:27)
And the same thing happened as we went through the site. Now that she was looking for these issues, we reached the programs page and realized—there was no Click to Sign Up button. None. Critical elements were removed because creativity won over functionality.
That brings me to my point—who is responsible for ensuring these things remain intact? Who ensures we don’t strip out the very elements that drive revenue and engagement?
One of my favorite examples is when companies send out press releases, and they get picked up by major publications. They’ll get thousands of placements—from high-authority sites to small blogs like Sally Sue’s Blog. But guess what? There’s no link to the product they’re promoting. So, all that exposure, all that traffic potential, is wasted.
Bill Scully (35:06)
Right. Right.
Bill Hunt (35:07)
Exactly. So, to your point, we need a checklist. We need to think about this holistically.
We should ask, How can different channels work together? If we’re doing something on the web, can other channels amplify it? Can ads support it?
One thing that irritates me right now—yesterday, I was trying to watch Zero Day on Netflix, and the first five ad breaks had those “Which ad do you prefer?” prompts. I don’t prefer any of them. But you either wait 10 seconds for it to auto-pick, or you grab the remote and choose one just to speed up the painful experience. It’s like… is this poor man’s A/B testing? I don’t want either option, but I also don’t want to sit through the waiting time.
Bill Scully (36:02)
Yeah, I’ve seen that before.
Bill Hunt (36:31)
That kind of advertising might work in some cases. Maybe tying it into an email campaign could make it more effective.
But really, we need to think about marketing holistically—not just search, not just email, not just traditional media. It’s about using everything in our toolbox to get the most out of our efforts.
Bill Scully (36:59)
Right, right. That’s how I want to wrap this up.
One thing I want people to take away is this—if you’re lucky enough to be invited to a campaign meeting at the very beginning, ask the key questions: What else can we do? How do we measure success?
Launching the campaign isn’t the goal. There has to be a goal behind it. Maybe it’s brand awareness. If so, are we measuring search trends? Are brand searches increasing?
If the goal is to sell more products, and the website is designed to sell, then let’s make sure we’re actually driving traffic there—not just getting people to see the ads.
I’ve worked on dashboards that pull in all sorts of metrics—reach, impressions, engagement—anything we can measure online.
And that reminds me—just yesterday, I was on a call with someone, walking them through a dashboard of referral traffic…
Bill Hunt (38:03)
Exactly.
Bill Scully (38:25)
I didn’t know what to expect because they were spending a lot of money on print ads. They told me they had links from these sites as part of their campaigns. So, I quickly filtered their category to see if any magazines appeared with the category name. Two popped up.
I was looking at a year’s worth of referral data—one magazine had three referrals, and the other had 60. Meanwhile, they were spending $10,000 a year to be featured in one of these magazines. The call to action was to visit their website, and they were receiving reports from the magazine’s site. But all they were getting were impressions.
I forget what they used to call them in the old days… What was the term for when an image appeared on a page? Hits. They were getting reports on hits, thinking people were visiting their website, but it was just an impression of the ad.
Bill Hunt (39:29)
Right.
Bill Scully (39:42)
There are so many things digital can do to improve projects, advertising, and feedback loops. I think this is a good place to wrap up. Any final thoughts?
Bill Hunt (39:57)
Exactly. No, just—like you said—the best advice is to grab a coffee, have a drink, meet with people, and learn more about what they’re doing. Think about how your role connects to different forms of marketing and make sure people are aware of that.
We’d love to hear from you—your experiences, the synergies you’ve found, or even the barriers you’ve faced in collaborating with others. We have a free Facebook group, so post there or let us know on LinkedIn.
These are our experiences and reactions to the market, but we want to know what you’re doing. Let us know if anything we’ve discussed resonates with you or if you’re facing challenges we might be able to help with.
Bill Scully (41:00)
Great. Thanks, Bill.
Bill Hunt (41:02)
Yep, see you next time.