In this episode of the International Web Effectiveness Podcast, Bill Hunt and Bill Scully discuss how SEO thrives through collaboration across teams. They explore creative ways to blend SEO into marketing campaigns, emphasize the importance of making the most of event marketing, and show how sharing data between teams can enhance web performance.
The conversation also addresses adapting to shifts in search technology, especially with AI on the rise, and stresses the need for a consistent, team-aligned approach to improve digital marketing outcomes.
Key Takeaways
- SEO works best when teams collaborate.
- Combining SEO with marketing campaigns boosts visibility.
- Knowing the customer journey improves SEO results.
- Event marketing gains traction with smart SEO tactics.
- Sharing data across teams sharpens decision-making.
- Keeping up with AI-driven search changes maintains relevance.
- SEO directly affects revenue and brand strength.
- Waiting to fix SEO issues costs opportunities.
- Top-ranking content acts as a steady sales driver.
- Teamwork across departments lifts web performance.
Catch the Full Episode
YouTube: https://youtu.be/ZAnxH098K9s?si=zi5QDBJJfuey1Sgs
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1v0VLqYBp7wugeuvgzOk2G?si=Kj7KNO61Qc6LerJLuYkpjA
Show Note Links
Exploring the Impact of AIOs on Web Traffic by Adi Srikanth – https://engineering.terakeet.com/posts/aio-research-2/
FREE HREFLang Training Course – https://learn.internationalwebmastery.com/collections
Transcript
Bill Scully (00:04)
Welcome to Episode 27 of the International Web Effectiveness Podcast! I’m Bill Scully, joined by Bill Hunt, and together, we focus on strategies and techniques to enhance your web presence and manage global websites.
In Episode 26, we asked, Why isn’t international SEO integrated across teams? We discussed why international SEO should be a team effort. In 2025, our key recommendation is simple: SEO needs to be a team sport.
Building on that, today’s episode dives deeper into the SEO as a team sport concept. We’ll share examples and explore integration opportunities based on our experiences. Let’s get into it—what creative ways can we incorporate search into other digital projects?
Bill Hunt (00:59)
Honestly, where can’t we integrate it? That’s the key—SEO should align with everything we do.
I remember working with a regional manager in Latin America who didn’t even want me speaking to his team about search—at least, not until I could show clear ways to integrate SEO into their existing marketing efforts.
So, over lunch, I put together slides mapping search integration opportunities for every marketing channel they were using—email, TV commercials, print ads. I brainstormed ideas on the spot, pulling examples from different industries.
By the end, he was impressed. His concern was that his team was already overwhelmed, and previous SEO consultants had given conflicting advice—undoing recent changes and creating confusion.
One integration strategy I’ve always supported is aligning SEO with TV commercials. We’ll cover this more in a future episode on campaigns, but here’s a key question I always ask:
“How would someone search for this commercial after seeing it, without remembering the brand?”
They might recall the product, a catchphrase, or—something I’ve seen a lot—ask, Who did the music in that ad? If a brand uses a rising artist or catchy song, people search for it. That’s a huge opportunity.
Here’s a real-world example: A major tourist destination ran a TV campaign but refused to optimize their site with relevant keywords from the ad. As a result, an affiliate partner capitalized on those exact keywords, outranked them in organic search, and drove more bookings—forcing the brand to pay hefty affiliate commissions.
This is why brands need to embrace SEO across all channels. If your audience is searching for your ad, product, or tagline—why not be the one to answer?
Bill Scully (05:08)
Exactly. Even a small lift in branded search volume can indicate that your TV or print ad is working.
People might see an ad but not have time to act immediately. Maybe they remember it the next day—“Who makes that product?” If your campaign promotes a new service, your website needs to be optimized for those searches.
Look at your branded search trends—did they increase after your marketing push? If so, great—you’re building awareness and demand. If not, something’s missing.
Bill Hunt (06:00)
Exactly.
Bill Scully (06:12)
Marketers often overlook the role of search in post-campaign engagement.
A TV commercial might have a limited impact, but once people land on your site, that’s your opportunity to guide them through the funnel.
Bill Hunt (06:45)
Take something simple—promo codes.
Many podcasts and brands use unique discount codes. But here’s the issue: If people see a coupon code field at checkout, their instinct is to search for a code.
I remember presenting at a conference about an outdoor retailer’s site. I had gone to buy something and saw a coupon code field. Naturally, I Googled “[Brand] coupon code”—and found multiple pages with offers. But the brand itself? Nowhere to be found.
Bill Scully (07:22)
Yeah, I’ve seen that too.
Bill Hunt (07:42)
Some brands handle this well by hosting their own coupon code page—so they rank #1 instead of third-party discount sites. One company did this perfectly. Their site listed valid, time-stamped codes, making them the go-to source.
Another smart approach? Brands offering a basic 5% discount code publicly but then using it as a gateway to bigger savings. If users sign up for an email list or loyalty program, they get a better discount.
This way, brands don’t just retain search traffic—they turn it into a customer acquisition strategy.
Bill Scully (09:18)
Right.
Bill Hunt (09:34)
One company took this further: Zappos didn’t offer coupon codes, but they had a dedicated page explaining that no Zappos discount codes existed. That way, when people searched for a Zappos code, they’d find the official site first—rather than third-party scam pages claiming to have deals.
Bill Scully (10:20)
Ahhh.
Bill Hunt (10:33)
“If you come across them, ignore them—we don’t have codes.” I thought that was a brilliant approach. The anti-code retail checkout page was particularly interesting, and it ties into something we discussed earlier—email marketing. It’s the same concept.
Bill Scully (10:48)
“Yes, yes, yes.”
Bill Hunt (11:01)
“I remember seeing something on sale and searching my email for a discount code. That’s a common behavior. For example, we’re planning a fall trip to Japan, and I saw that United Airlines recently opened direct flights from Tokyo to Mongolia.
I wanted to know which days they operated, but I couldn’t find that information on United’s website. However, I remembered seeing it in a travel rewards email. So, I Googled ‘United Mongolia flight days,’ and sure enough, an article from The Points Guy came up with the exact details I needed.”
Bill Scully (11:36)
“You—”
Bill Hunt (11:57)
“That post confirmed what I had read in the email. It reinforced the importance of making information accessible across multiple touchpoints.
This reminds me of a deal on scuba regulators. I took screenshots of my entire purchase journey—starting with a Facebook post announcing a limited-time sale, followed by an email from a dive shop, and finally, the purchase process. The problem was that no single source had the full details.
The manufacturer, the retailer, and even the online dive forums each had only part of the information. No one thought about the full buying cycle. For example, the manufacturer might announce a sale, but the retailer wouldn’t reinforce it until the last day. In this case, my local dive shop posted on Facebook on Halloween, saying, ‘Today’s the last day of this discount.’ Had they not done that, I would’ve completely missed it.
Marketers often focus on urgency—pushing customers to act immediately. But in reality, not everyone is ready at that moment. For me, it was that final reminder that prompted action. And when I went back to Facebook to find the discount code, it was gone. There was no cross-channel synergy.
This is the bigger issue—thinking through the entire buying cycle. As you pointed out, even TV commercials drive searches. If people are looking for something, make sure your brand is present in search results, email, and other channels. The goal is to connect the dots and create a seamless experience.”
Bill Scully (14:18)
“Yeah.”
Bill Hunt (14:21)
“You’ve worked on strategies to improve this alignment, right?”
Bill Scully (14:24)
“Exactly. We started this conversation with SEO, but what we’re really focused on is web effectiveness—how all digital efforts work together. SEO isn’t just about rankings; it affects revenue, branding, and overall visibility. If done poorly, it can hurt a business.
Take offline events, for example. Many companies don’t optimize for conference-related searches. If you’re exhibiting at an event, you can create a page targeting keywords like ‘SMX hotels in Boston’ or ‘best restaurants near [event venue].’
That page can include useful information—hotels, local attractions, your booth details, scheduled presentations, and a call-to-action for appointment booking. You can distribute it through email marketing, share it with distributors, and even integrate it into PR efforts.
Digital assets shouldn’t exist in silos. You need a strategy to integrate search, content, and outreach for maximum impact.”
Bill Hunt (16:49)
“I’m glad you mentioned events. This is a huge missed opportunity. Remember when events used to be the biggest marketing expense?”
Bill Scully (16:51)
“Oh, absolutely. They took up 70% of our marketing budget. And after the event, we’d get a list of attendees, pass it to sales, and most of the time, nothing happened with it.”
Bill Hunt (17:23)
“Exactly. We should do an entire episode on this. First, event organizers should ensure their event ranks in search. But beyond that, sponsors need to think about how they leverage these opportunities.
At IBM, for instance, we sponsored numerous events. Initially, our event sponsorship team would submit ‘ibm.com’ as the default URL for event listings. We realized this was a missed opportunity and trained them to use more relevant URLs—like a page specific to cloud computing if we were sponsoring a cloud conference.
This aligns with the core idea of web effectiveness—making sure all elements of a strategy work together. If your company is multi-product, you don’t want every link pointing to the homepage. You want to direct people to the most relevant landing page, leveraging the event’s authority to boost rankings and engagement.”
Bill Scully (18:58)
“Right. You don’t want to force people to navigate from your homepage to find what they need. Plus, these high-quality event backlinks help boost the authority of your category or product pages.”
Bill Hunt (19:12)
Here are two really cool things. Two of the smartest people I know are Turbo Todd Watson—that’s his actual name—and Julio Fernandez, who’s now at Cisco. These guys had both a search and digital background, and they pitched an idea to their companies:
“Let me go to our events and set up an interview booth.”
At big conferences like Cisco and IBM’s own events, they would set up a booth with two chairs, a microphone, and conduct interviews with prominent speakers immediately after their sessions—whether keynotes or other major talks.
They recorded video interviews, uploaded them to the company website and YouTube, and then transcribed them. The transcripts were also added to the website. What was interesting was how people found this content. They searched for concepts, speaker names, or related topics, and Todd and Julio had mapped out 20 to 30 different ways people might connect with this content.
Their efforts paid off. Setting up the booth, hauling the gear—while an investment—generated significant traffic, and people linked to the interviews, driving exponential growth.
This highlights the importance of integrating different marketing efforts. It’s not just about search. A key part of web effectiveness is how we collaborate—search, PR, analytics—everyone working together.
For example, this morning, I was talking to someone about hreflang. As we discussed in the X-default episode, many companies set up regional websites differently. The U.S. might implement hreflang one way, while Europe does it another. That got us thinking—if there’s inconsistency in hreflang setup, could there also be inconsistencies in analytics?
We realized that because Europe’s web setup is separate, their analytics might have differences or problems not seen in other regions. What started as a hreflang issue turned into a broader discussion on analytics accuracy.
I remember sitting in a meeting in Tokyo where we spotted an anomaly in the data. Users were searching for a specific problem that affected both our software and a competitor’s. Engineers quickly realized it needed fixing.
Bill Scully (23:22)
Right.
Bill Hunt (23:25)
We immediately sent out an alert to content teams worldwide:
“Hey, we saw this issue in Japan. Do you see it in your region? Even if you don’t, let’s get ahead of it and create content to address it.”
Japan was the first to detect the issue, but we didn’t wait for it to become a global problem. We also started monitoring data anomalies across markets—spikes, drops, bug increases, or features gaining unexpected traction. By sharing this data, teams could figure out how to leverage it in their markets.
At the end of the day, that’s the goal—having people move fast and pass the ball so others can score.
Bill Scully (24:34)
Exactly. A high-ranking blog post that addresses sales objections acts like a 24/7 sales rep. If someone converts from that post, they’re already further down the funnel. There are so many ways different teams can contribute to SEO.
Let’s talk about other opportunities.
Bill Hunt (25:06)
I’m a big fan of using paid data—click data. If we see strong engagement with certain messages, why not share that insight?
Back when my first agency was acquired by WPP and we joined Young & Rubicam, we worked with a telecom brand that relied heavily on direct mail. They were sending out tons of mail because that was their proven method.
One day, I sat in a brainstorming session where they were discussing envelope teasers—what phrases would get people to open the mail? They analyzed open rates, form completions, and call volume based on different wording.
I looked at it and thought, “These are just like paid search ads.”
So I suggested, “Let’s take your next batch of direct mail copy and test it in paid search to see how it performs.”
Bill Scully (26:30)
Right?
Bill Hunt (26:31)
Exactly. And then, let’s take the top-performing paid search ads and adapt them for email and direct mail.
This approach made us an integral part of the team. They started inviting us to their sessions because we were testing for them, and they were testing for us.
It was fascinating—if we could get someone to open a physical letter based on a compelling statement, chances were high they’d also click on the same message in a paid ad. It created a synergy between “old-school” direct mail and modern digital strategies.
Ironically, while people dismiss direct mail as outdated, their email campaigns were driving more conversions than even TV commercials. When teams collaborate like this, the results can be incredible.
Bill Scully (27:42)
Yeah, I’m going to show my age here, but back when I was a marketing manager, we used to send three-fold direct mail pieces. But we used them for A/B testing our print ads.
We’d send out two versions with different images and messaging to see which one got more responses. Inside was a bingo card for people to request a bulletin. The version with the higher response rate became the foundation for our print ad campaign for the year.
That same logic applies today. Paid search teams can inform email teams about what’s working. And one thing we haven’t even touched on yet—if we know what’s converting well in paid ads, we should make sure those topics are a priority for organic search as well.
Bill Hunt (28:59)
I think that’s the key here, right? If we know these messages and landing pages are converting, then we need to leverage them. One thing I’ve always argued about with search—and while I’m more known as an SEO person, I don’t really do SEO much anymore—is that paid search allows for precision.
When someone makes a query, they have a vested interest in what they’re looking for. With paid search, we have the ability to put whatever message we want in front of them and test it extensively. But think about all the other areas that could benefit from this data—print, for example. Can we take this and use it in print? Can we make it a headline? Can we repurpose it for social media?
Within the organization, we should be asking: is there anyone else who could benefit from this insight? This is what landing page creative is all about—understanding what works across different campaigns, whether it’s for social, paid, or other formats. Even in high-end econometric modeling, where all this data is analyzed together, the goal is to see what’s working.
This is where we go beyond just SEO. Instead of only worrying about code changes, we should be sharing data and insights across teams. If we step back for a moment, we can see how much distraction there is in the search industry right now. Some are going all in on AI, claiming that traditional search is dead. Yet, Google just reported that there are still trillions of searches happening in that environment. Others argue that it’s just the same approach in a different format.
And then there’s a shift happening—people are no longer just searching on Google. They’re using AI, social media, and new search formats. One trend I’ve noticed is an increase in visual search, like Google’s “circle to search” feature. I use a Google phone, and I can circle an image, and it instantly searches for it. So yes, search is evolving, but at the core, the question remains: how do we get our content in front of users?
This is something we should champion from a web effectiveness perspective. How do we ensure our digital environment is prepared—not just for the future of AI, but for the present AI-driven landscape? How do we make sure our content is crawlable? Interestingly, I’ve seen companies blocking AI bots from accessing their sites, only for their managers to later complain that they’re not getting any traffic from AI-driven search.
Bill Scully (32:33)
Yeah.
Bill Hunt (32:39)
We need to think about this strategically. We have a common goal: to figure out how we get crawled, indexed, and maximize our messaging.
I recently raised an interesting question in my “VP of Answers” post. Many are saying, “Don’t bother optimizing for AI because we can’t get clicks from it.” But what happens if you’re the market leader and your company isn’t showing up in AI-generated answers?
Imagine a key query related to your industry—one where you should be the dominant player. Now, if someone asks an AI tool that question and your brand isn’t in the response, that’s a problem.
Bill Scully (33:43)
Yeah. Marie Haynes mentioned something similar. She said to search for “What is [your brand] known for?” If the AI’s answer isn’t accurate, you haven’t done your job.
I came across an article recently, “Exploring the Impact of AIOs on Web Search,” written by Adi Srikanth from Terakit. He breaks down the concept of AI-optimized web pages versus those excluded from AI-generated results. He explains how if your content isn’t showing up in AI outputs, you’re missing out.
Basically, if you’re ranking in the top three positions but aren’t included in AI-driven results, you’re at a disadvantage. You need to be part of that landscape—there’s no question about it.
And yeah, I agree with you. There seem to be two camps: one that believes you can optimize for AI search and another that says you should just continue doing what you’re doing. I’m not sure which is the right answer, but either way, you need to be there.
Bill Hunt (35:21)
Exactly. You need to be there, and you need to move in that direction.
As AI adoption increases—especially in emerging and major global markets—we want to ensure we’re part of that ecosystem. We’re already seeing a shift in how people search, and we need to be ready for it.
Bill Scully (35:45)
For sure.
Bill Hunt (36:07)
We just need to be there. We’re not here to debate how to do it—not in this episode, at least. The point is to rally the team and develop a holistic strategy from a search, digital, advertising, and brand perspective. Because when you really look at it…
Bill Scully (36:30)
Yeah.
Bill Hunt (36:36)
It’s here. It’s coming fast. The longer we delay action, the harder it’s going to be. If we focus on web effectiveness, we need to ensure our infrastructure is running as smoothly as possible. One key area we’ve discussed moving forward is optimizing our website’s effectiveness.
I was working on an article recently and came across some data on click-through and conversion rates. One study showed that the average conversion rate in major markets is about 1.5%. That seemed low, so I looked at multiple studies—some showed higher numbers, even extreme cases of 50%, but this particular dataset was an aggregate of 10,000 to 20,000 websites. Across the board, conversion rates were relatively low.
Now, even if we assume an unrealistic 10% conversion rate, that means 90% of visitors aren’t converting. So how can we improve that? Is it the website’s flow? Are we creating friction? Are we asking too much from users?
Bill Scully (37:38)
Right.
Bill Hunt (38:04)
We need to analyze what’s stopping users from converting. If someone is coming in at a specific stage of the buying cycle, are we guiding them to the next step? Or are they hitting roadblocks?
This ties into the team approach. Imagine if analytics teams provided insights on where users drop off, how they arrived, and what their pain points are. If we can make even small improvements—lifting conversions by 1%, 2%, or 5%—it can have a significant impact.
Bill Scully (39:31)
Yeah, SEO is like compound interest. The earlier you start, the bigger the payoff over time. As you optimize for different search queries and user problems, that content stays online, continuously building your brand.
Bill Hunt (39:54)
Exactly. Any change that brings material benefit to your website is worth implementing sooner rather than later. I used to track this with a report where we estimated the potential traffic gains from fixing specific issues. If we identified a fix that could bring in 10,000 more visitors monthly and improve conversions, every month we delayed was a lost opportunity.
Bill Scully (40:45)
Yeah.
Bill Hunt (40:48)
Delaying fixes means missing out on potential growth. That’s why SEO should be treated as a team effort. Another key point is writing clear and actionable tickets within your organization—whether it’s for PR, paid search, or new product launches.
Good tickets should specify expected outcomes, reference best practices, and outline key elements to test. This helps everyone work more efficiently and improves overall execution. The more we collaborate across departments, the better our results will be.
Bill Scully (42:20)
Absolutely. One more thing—if you reach out to the paid ads team and ask for their highest-converting keywords, that’s a great source of SEO insights. These are likely keywords with low search volume but high intent. If they convert well in paid ads, they’re worth incorporating into your organic strategy.
Bill Hunt (43:00)
Great point. This is why SEO should be a team effort.
Bill Scully (43:07)
For our next episode, I propose we dive into campaign details—how teams can collaborate and how to measure success. Any final thoughts?
Bill Hunt (43:26)
That sounds good. Also, check out our training programs. I’ve added to my “Epiphanies” training—it’s free and covers key insights I’ve gained over the years. We also have courses on hreflang, building business cases, and we’re finalizing our SEO for Developers course.
If there’s a topic we haven’t covered that you’d like us to discuss—especially related to web effectiveness—let us know. Follow us on Facebook and stay connected.
Bill Scully (43:59)
I’m looking forward to that developers’ course.
Bill Hunt (44:23)
Yeah, we’ll do our best to cover more topics.
Bill Scully (44:27)
Great. Thanks, Bill.
Bill Hunt (44:29)
Thank you.